CO129-143 - Sir MacDonnell - 1870 [1-2] — Page 267

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SUPPLEMENT TO THE

the right of foreigners to reside more than temporarily, at least so long as they were ex- territorialized; and the practical working of the measure would be that, if any trouble arose, the local officials could then appeal to the work. ing of the convention, and say: "You have been here one, two, or three months, (as the case might be), and we claim your removal. His Excellency was sure that it would be only in case of some unavoidable trouble that such an appeal would be made. As to residence permanently, he had already pointed out that Her Majesty's Government does not consider it expedient; Imt, if foreign merchants desired to trade in the country, it was only necessary for them to acquire some little knowledge of the language, and to behave judiciously, being care- ful to make no unnecessary display of their rights as foreigners. This was His Excel'easy's own opinion on the matter.

Hon. Mr. TAYIron begged to point out that under the provision made, the Chinese local officials would be able to "squeeze" the land- lor is of foreign houses as much as they wished.

His EXCELLENCY said that no Treaty pro- vision could possibly prevent this. Unless the advantages to be gained by proceeding into the interior to trade outweighed any squeezes that might be imposed in this manner, it would cer- tainly not be worth any foreigner's while to go into the country. The objection applied equal ly to everything. There was always the danger that local officials might take advantage of their position to squeeze the people. The con- vention no doubt did not attain all that was desired; but all that Her Majesty's Govern- ment had authorised His Excellency to claim He might go so far as to say that he had reason to know that if dealing only on the part of the British Government, many things which under present circumstances were impossible would be both possible and practicable. The Chinese frequently answered to demands that were made : "That is all very well so far as you are con- cernel; but what we are disposed to trast to you. we are not disposed to trust to all." His Excellency thought that the Press and the Chambers of Commerce generally forgot that, when the Minister dealt for British merchants, the terms applied to all nationalities in China. There might be less reservation on the part of the Chinese if they were dealing with any one nation, but there were eight or nine powers who all claimed the same privileges, though their subjects were not under the same restric- tions. It could not be overlooked that there was no machinary organised for carrying out the foreign side of the Treaty as a whole. The Treaty involved matual obligations, and we must do something to perform our part.

Hon. J. B. TAYLOR thought that the object of the Treaty was to increase the facilities for legitimate trade, and chiefly to give employ ment to the large manufacturing population of

DAILY PRESS."

Lancashire He would be glad if His Excel- lency could inform him whether he was right in understanding that a native could not get a refund of any excess of duties over the Transit Duties, in the same way 28 British Mhant could. There was also no for a refund of any excess in trausit ducis exacted on goods sent to Hong- kong.

arrangeme

His EXCELLENCY stated that, with respect to Chinese owned native produce, the Treaty of Tientsin never contemplated giving to it the benefit of the Transit Dues clause. It must be British owned native produce; Chinese owned had no protection whatever. It was expressly stated by Lord Elgin that he did not see his way to make any such provision; as regarded textile fabrics they would throughout the nine Treaty Provinces be quite as free as Transit Passes could make thein, and would be relieved from the Lekin Tax which had been dwarfing foreign trade. Now, textile fabrics cannot only puss throughout the nine Treaty port Provinces, but are relieved even in native hands from all possible taxation. If this can be effected-and this was the design of the convention-the whole area of nine provinces will be available for the sale of British manufactures. Any attempt to stop boats beyoud four hours will form grounds for an immediate appeal to the nearest foreign Custom House, who will be bound immediately to despatch an officer to investigate the matter. Hon. Mr. TAYLOR enquired whether this would be the case when the goods were Chinese hands.

in

His EXCELLENCY said it would be the same whether they were being carried by Chinese or hy British subjects. In the non-Treaty Pro. vinces, they could be conveyed under Transit passes as before.

Hon. Mr. TAYLOR observed that these passes had been found practically a dead letter.

His EXCELLENCY observed this did not result from their purport not being to relieve the goods of the taxes. At present, foreign goods would be relieved of all taxes Lekim or Transit, whether in Chinese or British hands.

Hon. Mr. TAYLOR admitted that this would be a great boou, if only fairly carried ont.

His EXCELLENCY said that there was a great security for this to be found in being able to call in the aid of the Maritime Customs, and having an appeal to the Central Government. As far as procuring evidence was concerned, it would not be difficult for the foreign merchant to have an agent to accompany the goods, and give the necessary testimony. Everything in China must be tentative. The most perfect Treaty was only valuable so far as it enabled its provisions to be carried out. He did not think it had been remarked that no term was fixed as to the length of its operation, so that if at any time it was found inoperative, it was open to revise it. As to exports, they received

JANUARY 7, 1870.

all the protection that the old Treaty gave. British owned produce did not require Trau sit passes, and in order to avoid any idea that the new arrangements are ma le tu defraud the Provincial arthorities, it was arranged that all produce would pay the same dnes, A native buyer if he likes can take out a memo.. and have noted upon it the amounts he has paid.

Hoa, Mr. TAYLOR said that was the point upon which the Chamber desired information. If the native paid more than 23 per cent., would he be entitled to a refund?

His EXCELLENCY said that he would be so. Hon. J. B. TAYLOR enquired with reference to the rule that should produce be shipped

for conveyance to a treaty port, no make up for inland duties, over 24 per cent. would be allowed, whether this would apply to Teas, for example, sent from Hankow to Shanghai.

His EXCELLENCY replied that when merely shipping to a coast port a refund could be got. Hon. J. B. TAYLOR enquired if foreigners could lease mines under the new couveation.

His EXCELLENCY said they could not. The Chinese were willing to undertake that two mines should be worked by foreign appliances, and it was understood that the spots would be near the river at Chinkiang and at Chefno. Foreign machinery would be used, but the mines would be under the Chinese Government. The Chinese were always afraid of political complications arising from such causes, and an- rious when a large number of men congregated together as at mines, to keep the matter in their own hands. When, however, they found that mines could be opened without political dis- turbances arising, they would no doubt be more willing to allow such to be done.

Hon. Mr. TAYLOR enquired whether it was competent for foreigners to open manufactories at the Treaty ports.

His ExoLLENCY said there was nothing against such a course in the Treaty. It was. however, ouly well for those who contemplated such enterprises to bear in mind the force of popular prejudice, which often resisted such innovations. No doubt the Chinese Govern- ment would become alarmed if factories at Treaty ports were found to create disturbances, If no such results ensued, there was nothing in the Treaty against it.

Hon. Mr. TAYLOR enquired whether opium was one of the articles which was allowed to circulate without passes.

His EXCELLENCY said certainly not, as opium was expressly exempted from the pro- tection of the Transit Dues clause,

Hon. Mr. TaYLOE then said there were some articles in the Treaty especially affecting Hongkong. The closing of the port of Kium. chow, in Hainan, was much regretted in this Colony.

His EXCELLENOT said it seemed to bim that a port, which had been open for ten years without

a

any nation appointing a Consul thereto, could not be of much importance. He had sent Mr. Swinhoe to examine and report, and from what that gentleman had stated, he did not anti cí. pate there was any very wide field for trade there. Possibly, in conjunction with a port on the Gulf of Tonquin, it would give employment to shipping, and get rid of pirates; bat there had been so great diversity of opinion as to the opening of any new ports at all, that he had found it difficult to decide. It was thought by many that new ports increased expenses, with- out increasing trade in proportion. It was impossible to get the Chinese to consent to the terina proposed to them without giving them something in return. The demand made by the Chinese secured almost a paerile one, as if the port were not opene l in the British Treaty it still was so in others.

Hon. Mr. TAYLOR thought there was a great trude there.

HIB EXCELLENCY asked why this was not spoken of previously.

Mr. POLLARD, QC., said the principal reason was the prohibition from the customs at Canton. He might mention that for some time small steamers carried on trade there, which, though not sanctioned, was winked at, and this trade increased to so large an extent that tue maritime customs would bare established a branch, but they said that could not bed me until there was 2 Consulate.

His EXCELLENCY recollected that there was some stir made about the matter, but it was allowed to drop. A distinct request was made to the British Government, but nothing was done with regard to it.

Mr. POLLARD stated that so far as the merchants, here were concerned, the matter was allowed to slumber because the revision of the treaty was near at hand. As chairman of the pub- lic meeting which had taken place, he represented interests distinct from those of the Chamber of Commerce. That body was concerned rather with the interests of the general trade with China, but he was deputed to speak more in reference to the interests of the colonists There had formerly been a direct stream of traffic between this and Kiunchow, which bad now no existence. It could not be said that this trade was any detriment to the Imperial revenue, because they could establish a branch of the Maritime Customs, and would receive dues which they do not receive now. The trade was formerly prohibited, without a Canton duty chop; and giving up Kiuuchow as an open port struck a blow at Hongkong, which was the natural channel through which all trade with the West Coast and South of China should pass. Why should Hongkong, then, be shut out from the trade ?

HIS EXCELLENCY said that foreigners bad

no right

to complain about the nature of the trade conducted by Chinese in

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